- 11 Apr 2008, 21:26
#1090734
Zašto mi je palo napamet da otvorim ovu temu kao pandan devoKICinoj? Zato što se kao i ona oštro zalažem protiv diskriminacije.
Mene zapravo zanima da pišem na nekom femme femme forumu, specijalizovanom za dinamiku između dve devojke koje jedna drugoj duvaju u lak za nokte. To mi je oduvek bila fantazija. Meni je oduvek bila i fantazija da imam mlađu sestru, ali da to ostavimo po strani.. (ako neko ima linkove, neka mi prosledi na u2u)
Ukucala sam reči FEMME i LESBIAN u google, kao i FEMME LESBIAN FORUM i izbacilo mi je npr: BUTCHFEMME forum, femme I am so sick of..
ili
FEMME LESBIANS-JOKES.
Zaista tužno.
Započeću ovu temu jednim divnim člankom iz bloga koji sam takođe pronašla guglanjem.
queer femme, lesbian femme, lipstick lesbian which word do you choose?
Yesterday, as I was getting ready to leave work I pulled on my jacket, navy blue with baby storybook femmes printed onto buttons. As I was picking up my messenger bag, checking my email one last time an argument broke out. My co-workers suddenly began debating what it meant to be a femme, began trying to decide what “femme” as a label, an identity, a category looked like, felt like, meant. Is a lesbian femme the same as a queer femme they wondered? What about a lipstick lesbian, is that the same as a femme? Is being feminine enough to be femme, or does the queer part have to be attached, how about the self-identification? Two days ago I read a post in an online community, positing that there are more femmes than butches, when asked if they were talking about feminine dykes or folks who self identified as femme, they said it was one in the same. Is someone femme if they don’t wear their femininity ironically? What about straight femmes, are they possible, or is queerness a requirement? I despise the term lipstick lesbian, two months ago a good friend (who also happens to be a femme) was over for dinner, and we joked that we didn’t know anyone who identified as a lipstick lesbian, that we found the term weird, strange, not connected to the ways we view our queer femininity, even if it is a rare day for either of us to leave our homes without lipstick. Last week I became friends with a femme who came to the city from half way around the world, she identifies as a lipstick lesbian. I find myself asking a lot of questions here, because I don’t have answers to give. I can talk about what is true for my own femininity, that for me queerness is intimately tied to being femme. I feel most comfortable living and presenting femininely but I also consider that femininity a social construct. I don’t consider every feminine lesbian to be a femme, I see that as a label, which must be claimed, and understood, that it’s, more than dresses, heels, lipstick. When I hear the word femme it conjures images of queerness, and dyke histories, but I know that’s only my construction, and nothing more.
i još poučniji odgovori:
I always thought “lipstick lesbian” was a mainstream media invention from the ’90s. But according to Wikipedia it’s been in use a little longer than that and probably has origins in the queer community. Apparently it originally referred specifically to feminine lesbians or dykes who like other feminine women, and it started because people felt that “femme” implied butch-femme. I hadn’t heard that before. Around here, at least, there are a lot of femme-id’d folks who are into femmes.
dalje:
wow that’s a really interesting connection that i also have never heard before! like you i had always thought “lipstick lesbian” to be an invention of the mainstream media. i’m really interested in the self identifying aspect of it amongst feminine folks who were not interested in butches. i suppose in many ways, that could explain my own ignorance with the term, as butch/femme dynamics and culture are a big part of my conception of femme, and the vast majority of my femme friends also are part of butch/femme culture…..
I još jedno zanimljivo pitanje:
If you are a really fem lesbian.. how do other lesbians know that you are a lesbian?
ive been thinking that im a lesbian for a while now, im 17, but im pretty fem. Im not like out of control fem, but i like to look nice. I do wear laid back styles also though. I am into sports, and i do drive a jeep lol, but if i ever come out as a lesbian, how would i ever get another girl to like me if i dont "look" like a lesbian. for me i have pretty good gaydar and i can tell who is gay and such, but i always have a hard time telling is a fem is gay or not.
I know this is a stereotypical question, but i just want to know what you have to say, because if i come out, i want to be able to be noticed so another lesbian could approach me, because im shy and i dont think i could ever approach someone i like.
Eto, pitaju se ljudi svuda po guglu, mogli bismo i mi. Kako biste vi odgovorili na pređašnji članak/pitanja? Dosta smo pričali o butch/femme dinamici, hajdemo malo o femme femme dinamici (dakle, odnos dve lezbejke koje su takozvane FEMME, a nisu zainteresovane za buthice, već isključivo za FEMME), i kako se ona prelama preko patrijarhata, uzimajući u obzir društvo u kome živimo.
Da li se pojam femme u okviru lgbt kategorija i fijoka, izvodi isključivo iz butch/femme odnosa, kao što se pojam žena u okviru hetero fijoka izvodi iz odnosa muškarac/žena. Da li je homo butch/femme dinamika pandan hetero muškarac/žena dinamici? Šta znači biti femme van queer/lgbt konteksta i da li takva femme postoji, tj postoji u kontekstu heteroseksističkog viđenja? Da li onda postoji i neka vrsta homoseksizma? )Vaše mišljenje.
Mene zapravo zanima da pišem na nekom femme femme forumu, specijalizovanom za dinamiku između dve devojke koje jedna drugoj duvaju u lak za nokte. To mi je oduvek bila fantazija. Meni je oduvek bila i fantazija da imam mlađu sestru, ali da to ostavimo po strani.. (ako neko ima linkove, neka mi prosledi na u2u)
Ukucala sam reči FEMME i LESBIAN u google, kao i FEMME LESBIAN FORUM i izbacilo mi je npr: BUTCHFEMME forum, femme I am so sick of..
ili
FEMME LESBIANS-JOKES.
Zaista tužno.
Započeću ovu temu jednim divnim člankom iz bloga koji sam takođe pronašla guglanjem.
queer femme, lesbian femme, lipstick lesbian which word do you choose?
Yesterday, as I was getting ready to leave work I pulled on my jacket, navy blue with baby storybook femmes printed onto buttons. As I was picking up my messenger bag, checking my email one last time an argument broke out. My co-workers suddenly began debating what it meant to be a femme, began trying to decide what “femme” as a label, an identity, a category looked like, felt like, meant. Is a lesbian femme the same as a queer femme they wondered? What about a lipstick lesbian, is that the same as a femme? Is being feminine enough to be femme, or does the queer part have to be attached, how about the self-identification? Two days ago I read a post in an online community, positing that there are more femmes than butches, when asked if they were talking about feminine dykes or folks who self identified as femme, they said it was one in the same. Is someone femme if they don’t wear their femininity ironically? What about straight femmes, are they possible, or is queerness a requirement? I despise the term lipstick lesbian, two months ago a good friend (who also happens to be a femme) was over for dinner, and we joked that we didn’t know anyone who identified as a lipstick lesbian, that we found the term weird, strange, not connected to the ways we view our queer femininity, even if it is a rare day for either of us to leave our homes without lipstick. Last week I became friends with a femme who came to the city from half way around the world, she identifies as a lipstick lesbian. I find myself asking a lot of questions here, because I don’t have answers to give. I can talk about what is true for my own femininity, that for me queerness is intimately tied to being femme. I feel most comfortable living and presenting femininely but I also consider that femininity a social construct. I don’t consider every feminine lesbian to be a femme, I see that as a label, which must be claimed, and understood, that it’s, more than dresses, heels, lipstick. When I hear the word femme it conjures images of queerness, and dyke histories, but I know that’s only my construction, and nothing more.
i još poučniji odgovori:
I always thought “lipstick lesbian” was a mainstream media invention from the ’90s. But according to Wikipedia it’s been in use a little longer than that and probably has origins in the queer community. Apparently it originally referred specifically to feminine lesbians or dykes who like other feminine women, and it started because people felt that “femme” implied butch-femme. I hadn’t heard that before. Around here, at least, there are a lot of femme-id’d folks who are into femmes.
dalje:
wow that’s a really interesting connection that i also have never heard before! like you i had always thought “lipstick lesbian” to be an invention of the mainstream media. i’m really interested in the self identifying aspect of it amongst feminine folks who were not interested in butches. i suppose in many ways, that could explain my own ignorance with the term, as butch/femme dynamics and culture are a big part of my conception of femme, and the vast majority of my femme friends also are part of butch/femme culture…..
I još jedno zanimljivo pitanje:
If you are a really fem lesbian.. how do other lesbians know that you are a lesbian?
ive been thinking that im a lesbian for a while now, im 17, but im pretty fem. Im not like out of control fem, but i like to look nice. I do wear laid back styles also though. I am into sports, and i do drive a jeep lol, but if i ever come out as a lesbian, how would i ever get another girl to like me if i dont "look" like a lesbian. for me i have pretty good gaydar and i can tell who is gay and such, but i always have a hard time telling is a fem is gay or not.
I know this is a stereotypical question, but i just want to know what you have to say, because if i come out, i want to be able to be noticed so another lesbian could approach me, because im shy and i dont think i could ever approach someone i like.
Eto, pitaju se ljudi svuda po guglu, mogli bismo i mi. Kako biste vi odgovorili na pređašnji članak/pitanja? Dosta smo pričali o butch/femme dinamici, hajdemo malo o femme femme dinamici (dakle, odnos dve lezbejke koje su takozvane FEMME, a nisu zainteresovane za buthice, već isključivo za FEMME), i kako se ona prelama preko patrijarhata, uzimajući u obzir društvo u kome živimo.
Da li se pojam femme u okviru lgbt kategorija i fijoka, izvodi isključivo iz butch/femme odnosa, kao što se pojam žena u okviru hetero fijoka izvodi iz odnosa muškarac/žena. Da li je homo butch/femme dinamika pandan hetero muškarac/žena dinamici? Šta znači biti femme van queer/lgbt konteksta i da li takva femme postoji, tj postoji u kontekstu heteroseksističkog viđenja? Da li onda postoji i neka vrsta homoseksizma? )Vaše mišljenje.
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