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Koliko je Stephan Hawking glup?

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 11:05
od Morgan Le Faye
Svi koji prate vesti s vremena na vreme mogu da nalete na njegove izjave, koje se uzimaju kao aksiomi.

Dotični je izjavio da je loše tražiti život van zemlje jer civilizacija koja je naprednija od nas će samo pokupiti naše resurse, kao što smo mi radili s Australijom, Afrikom, Amerikom.

Iako za to postoji mogućnost, zašto nije uzeo pretpostavku u razmatranje da su civilizacije koje imaju tehnologiju na mnogo većem nivou od naše imaju moral ili spiritualnost na višem stepenu od našeg?
Već je projektovao moral ljudi kolonijalne ere na bića koja da bi došli do nas moraju biti na mnogo većem stupnju evolucije, kako tehnološke tako i kulturne pa i spiritualne?

Danas sam pročitao da je dotični izjavio da nema boga.
I da je univerzum nastao spontano. E sada njegovo je pravo da piše knjige i da izjavljuje tako nešto. Ali pošto je fizičar čudi me da koristi reč "spontanost" posebno jer se ništa na ovome svetu ne dešava spontano. Za sve postoji razlog. I dok nema objašnjenja kako je materija nastala, kada istu nije moguće stvoriti niti uništiti...verujem da bi mu bilo bolje da ćuti.

Koje je vaše mišljenje?


:lepeza:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 11:13
od Anhedonie
Ja se slazem s njim, ali po meni postoji sansa da nas nece samo iskoristiti, ali je jako mala, jedino ako su slicni kao mi, ali onda ne bi mogli da stignu do nas.

Slazem se sa njim.

Da li si ti ikad buba svabi dao da jede?

edit: I zove se Stephen :giggle:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 11:18
od antibiotic
Ko zna sta je u njegovoj glavi, a mozda mu se neki bitan deo mozga paralizovao, pa sad mu vizije sada vise lice na one splibergovsko-lukasovske.

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 11:38
od bas bleu
Originally posted by antibiotic
a mozda mu se neki bitan deo mozga paralizovao
vala bas, ne samo sto je glup nego je i cripple.
srecom pa smo to apsolvirali vec u trecem postu.

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 11:59
od svejedno
Illuminatus!

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 12:09
od mitrandir
Za mene, Hoking je Ajnštajn današnjice. :hail:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 12:13
od Orlando the Lady
:lol:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 13:05
od Srklet
mali offtopic: meni je uvijek bilo zanimljivo da je artificijelna inteligencija u filmovima skoro pa uvijek prikazana kao prijeteca. od '2001: a space odissey', preko 'terminatora' i njegovog skyneta, pa do 'matrixa'. navodim samo najpoznatije primjere ali ima ih jos mnogo. i da je prva stvar koji bi AI ucinila, nakon sto dobije svijest o sebi i ostalome, jest porobljavanje/unistenje ljudi.
meni se to cini kao ljudska projekcija, odnosno manifestacija ljudske psihe na mogucu AI, jer je unistenje i porobljavanje "konkurencije" svojstveno ljudima. mozda bi AI prvo htio da se, recimo, zaljubi (ili neki AI ekvivalent toga) ili da, stajaznam, putuje itd, a ne da odmah osjeti (nad)moć kao najvazniji aspekt svojeg postojanja, nego neke druge stvari. a mozda bi bila samo jako depresivna i odmah se ubila. :D
zato jako volim spot za 'all is full ove love', gdje se roboti "probude" i zaljube te pojebu. :D
s druge strane, AI bi bila stvorena od strane ljudi, pa bi mozda tako sustinski bila "zarazena" ljudskoscu i svime sto ista podrazumjeva.

sto se teme tice, gledano iz perspektive svemirske vjecnosti, potpuno je nevazno ima li jos zivih bica out there i bi li oni unistili ljude. pa i kad bi, nije da bi to bilo ikako relevantno za svemir. za ljude bi mozda bilo. :D

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 13:07
od Anhedonie
A kako ce ameri da spase svet ako niko ne zeli da nas unisti? :katemoss:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 14:03
od luciferin91
Govorish o osobi koja je medju 10 najboljih fizicara na svetu. :roll:

I da, spontanost posotoji, i strucno se zove entropija sistema.

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 14:50
od Dušan Maljković
Milice tvoji dometi u pop-psihologiji su koliki i u magiji -- em letiš na metli u svojoj psihotičnoj imaginaciji, em ti projektuješ da se drugi projektuju, naročito kada odvališ budalaštinu o tome da je Hoking glup, a ti eto spoznala smisao univerzuma pa si shvatila da sve ima cilj i da se ništa ne dešava spontano. Ne poznavati da se na tom polju lomi intelektualna istorija čovečanstva već 2500 godina, te da je i dalje nerešeno pitanje (in)determinizma, govori da tvoju glupost krasi i temeljno neznanje.:skola:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 15:21
od walt333
Originally posted by Vetur úlfur

Ja se slazem s njim, ali po meni postoji sansa da nas nece samo iskoristiti,
JU :lepeza:mogu da me iskoriste samo ako su lepi i zgodni. Ovako ne dam.

ONT Mislim da je besmisleno uopste i odgovoriti.:cowboy:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 16:20
od Morgan Le Faye
Originally posted by Dušan Maljković

Milice tvoji dometi u pop-psihologiji su koliki i u magiji -- em letiš na metli u svojoj psihotičnoj imaginaciji, em ti projektuješ da se drugi projektuju, naročito kada odvališ budalaštinu o tome da je Hoking glup, a ti eto spoznala smisao univerzuma pa si shvatila da sve ima cilj i da se ništa ne dešava spontano. Ne poznavati da se na tom polju lomi intelektualna istorija čovečanstva već 2500 godina, te da je i dalje nerešeno pitanje (in)determinizma, govori da tvoju glupost krasi i temeljno neznanje. :skola:
Druga stvar koje bi trebao da budeš svestan jeste da se jako i lako daš projektovati, odnosno da pljujući druge pričaš o sebi. Samo poricanje istine i stvarnosti kojoj si sklon govori o tome ko je psihotičan i živi u svetu iluzija, ograničen i osuđen na reprodukciju znanja drugih. Koje je samo lepše definisano a u stvari je oduvek postojalo kao amanet iz starih vremena.

Spontanost je poput ideje da je Zemlja ploča, u dvodimenzionalnom svetu ona jeste ploča a u drugoj "realnosti" spontanost je moguća, ali to nije tako u ovoj "realnosti".

Možda za par inkarnacija i ti shvatiš osnovu stvari o kojoj pričam. Mada s druge strane sklon sam precenjivanju ljudi.

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 16:48
od bern
Originally posted by Morgan Le Faye

Danas sam pročitao da je dotični izjavio da nema boga.
I da je univerzum nastao spontano. E sada njegovo je pravo da piše knjige i da izjavljuje tako nešto. Ali pošto je fizičar čudi me da koristi reč "spontanost" posebno jer se ništa na ovome svetu ne dešava spontano. Za sve postoji razlog. I dok nema objašnjenja kako je materija nastala, kada istu nije moguće stvoriti niti uništiti...verujem da bi mu bilo bolje da ćuti.

Koje je vaše mišljenje?

:lepeza:
1. Da je Bog u domenu vjere, a ne dokaza.
2. Da ti treba uzemljenje & banišing jer ti se polako briše granica između iluzornog/fiktivnog i stvarnog svijeta. If you know what I mean...

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 17:03
od Morgan Le Faye
Originally posted by bern
Originally posted by Morgan Le Faye

Danas sam pročitao da je dotični izjavio da nema boga.
I da je univerzum nastao spontano. E sada njegovo je pravo da piše knjige i da izjavljuje tako nešto. Ali pošto je fizičar čudi me da koristi reč "spontanost" posebno jer se ništa na ovome svetu ne dešava spontano. Za sve postoji razlog. I dok nema objašnjenja kako je materija nastala, kada istu nije moguće stvoriti niti uništiti...verujem da bi mu bilo bolje da ćuti.

Koje je vaše mišljenje?

:lepeza:
1. Da je Bog u domenu vjere, a ne dokaza.
2. Da ti treba uzemljenje & banišing jer ti se polako briše granica između iluzornog/fiktivnog i stvarnog svijeta. If you know what I mean...
Definiši stvari svet.

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 18:22
od E.c.h.o...
Zanimljivo, vanzemaljski zivot verovatno postoji, ali trebalo bi da ga ignorisemo.

'Ajde, ajde, nema ovde nista da se vidi, gospodine E.T. samo nastavite dalje. Culi smo da je Venera divna u ovo doba godine, jeste, prva sledeca planeta prema Suncu.'

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 18:28
od Sanja Steppenwolfin
pa sto je to glupo, ako kaze da ne postoji Bog :nerd:

znaci svi koji ne veruju u postojanje Boga su glupi, znaci i ja sam glupa, znaci imam IQ kao Stephen Hawking :wow:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 19:20
od Mage
Hoking nije glup, ali istina jeste da je većina "svetskih umova" precenjena. Većina poznatih naučnika ima ego daleeeeeko veći od svog intelekta, tako da vrlo često ne žele da priznaju svoje greške jer su jel da "nepogrešivi" pa se tvrdoglavo drže svojih ideja. Čast izuzecima :)

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 19:38
od luciferin91
^znam par ljudi sa Kembridza koji studiraju matematiku tamo. Rekli su mi da su savrsheni i da su oni u stvari Bogovi. :roll:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 19:42
od horus.
Originally posted by Morgan Le Faye

verujem da bi mu bilo bolje da ćuti.
isecite mu prst! :sudija:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 19:48
od Mariška
Originally posted by Popeye

mali offtopic: meni je uvijek bilo zanimljivo da je artificijelna inteligencija u filmovima skoro pa uvijek prikazana kao prijeteca. od '2001: a space odissey', preko 'terminatora' i njegovog skyneta, pa do 'matrixa'. navodim samo najpoznatije primjere ali ima ih jos mnogo. i da je prva stvar koji bi AI ucinila, nakon sto dobije svijest o sebi i ostalome, jest porobljavanje/unistenje ljudi.
meni se to cini kao ljudska projekcija, odnosno manifestacija ljudske psihe na mogucu AI, jer je unistenje i porobljavanje "konkurencije" svojstveno ljudima. mozda bi AI prvo htio da se, recimo, zaljubi (ili neki AI ekvivalent toga) ili da, stajaznam, putuje itd, a ne da odmah osjeti (nad)moć kao najvazniji aspekt svojeg postojanja, nego neke druge stvari. a mozda bi bila samo jako depresivna i odmah se ubila. :D
zato jako volim spot za 'all is full ove love', gdje se roboti "probude" i zaljube te pojebu. :D
s druge strane, AI bi bila stvorena od strane ljudi, pa bi mozda tako sustinski bila "zarazena" ljudskoscu i svime sto ista podrazumjeva.
TRUE LOVE


My name is Joe. That is what my colleague, Milton Davidson, calls me. He is a programmer and I am a computer. I am part of the Multivac-complex and am connected with other parts all over the world. I know everything. Almost everything.

I am Milton’s private computer. His Joe. He understands more about computers than anyone in the world, and I am his experimental model. He has made me speak better than any other computer can.

“It is just a matter of matching sounds to symbols, Joe,” he told me. “That’s the way it works in the human brain even though we still don’t know what symbols there are in the brain. I know the symbols in yours, and I can match them to words, one-to-one.” So I talk. I don’t think I talk as well as I think, but Milton says I talk very well. Milton has never married, though he is nearly 40 years old. He has never found the right woman, he told me. One day he said, “I’ll find her yet, Joe. I’m going to find the best. I’m going to have true love and you’re going to help me. I’m tired of improving you in order to solve the problems of the world. Solve my problem. Find me true love.”

I said, “What is true love?”

“Never mind. That is abstract. Just find me the ideal girl. You are connected to the Multivac-complex so you can reach the data banks of every human being in the world. We’ll eliminate them all by groups and classes until we’re left with only one person. The perfect person. She will be for me.”

I said, “I am ready.”

He said, “Eliminate all men first.”

It was easy. His words activated symbols in my molecular valves. I could reach out to make contact with the accumulated data on every human being in the world. At his words, I withdrew from 3 784 982 874 men. I kept contact with 3 786 112 090 women.

He said, “Eliminate all younger than 25, all older than 40. Then eliminate all with an IQ under 120; all with a height under 150 centimeters and over 175 centimeters.”

He gave me exact measurements; he eliminated women with living children; he eliminated women with various genetic characteristics. “I’m not sure about eye colour,” he said. “Let that go for a while. But no red hair. I don’t like red hair.”

After two weeks, we were down to 235 women. They all spoke English very well. Milton said he didn’t want a language problem. Even computer-translation would get in the way at intimate moments.

“I can’t interview 235 women,” he said. “It would take too much time, and people would discover what I am doing.”

“It would make trouble,” I said. Milton had arranged me to do things I wasn’t designed to do. No one knew about that.

“It’s none of their business,” he said, and the skin on his face grew red. “I tell you what, Joe, I will bring in holographs, and you check the list for similarities.”

He brought in holographs of women. “These are three beauty contest winners,” he said. “Do any of the 235 match?”

Eight were very good matches and Milton said, “Good, you have their data banks. Study requirements and needs in the job market and arrange to have them assigned here. One at a time, of course.” He thought a while moved his shoulders up and down, and said, “Alphabetical order.”

That is one of the things I am not designed to do. Shifting people from job to job for personal reasons is called manipulation. I could do it now because Milton had arranged it. I wasn’t supposed to do it for anyone but him, though.

The first girl arrived a week later. Milton’s face turned red when he saw her. He spoke as though it were hard to do so. They were together a great deal and he paid no attention to me. One time he said, “Let me take you to dinner.”

The next day he said to me, “It was no good, somehow. There was something missing. She is a beautiful woman, but I did not feel any touch of true love. Try the next one.”

It was the same with all eight. They were much alike. They smiled a great deal and had pleasant voices, but Milton always found it wasn’t right. He said, “I can’t understand it, Joe. You and I have picked out the eight women who, in all the world, look the best to me. They are ideal. Why don’t they please me?”

I said, “Do you please them?”

His eyebrows moved and he pushed one fist hard against his hand. “That’s it, Joe. It’s a two-way street. If I am not their ideal, they can’t act in such a way as to be my ideal. I must be their true love, too, but how do I do that?” he seemed to be thinking all that day.

The next morning he came to me and said, “I’m going to leave it to you, Joe. All up to you. You have my data bank, and I am going to tell you everything I know about myself. You fill up my data bank in every possible detail but keep all additions to yourself.”

“What will I do with the data bank, then, Milton?”

“Then you will match it to the 235 women, no,227. leave out the eight you’ve seen. Arrange to have each undergo a psychiatric examination. Fill up their data banks and compare them with mine. Find correlations.” (Arranging psychiatric examinations is another thing that is against my original instructions.)

For weeks, Milton talked to me. He told me of his parents and his siblings. He told me of his childhood and his schooling and his adolescence. He told me of the young women he had admired from a distance. His data bank grew and he adjusted me to broaden and deepen my symbol-taking.

He said, “You see, Joe, as you get more and more of me in you, I adjust you to match me better and better. You get to think more like me, so you whose data bank is something you understand as well, would be my true love.” He kept talking to me and I came to understand him better and better.

I could make longer sentences and my expressions grew more complicated. My speech began to sound a good deal like his in vocabulary, word order and style

I said to him one time, “You see, Milton, it isn’t a matter of fitting a girl to a physical ideal only. You need a girl who is a personal, emotional, temperamental fit to you. If that happens, looks are secondary. If we can’t find the fit in these 227, we’ll look elsewhere. We will find someone who won’t care how you look either, or how anyone would look, if only there is the personality fit. What are looks?”

“Absolutely,” he said, “I would have known this if I had had more to do with women in my life. Of course, thinking about it makes it all plain now.”

We always agreed; we thought so like each other.

“We shouldn’t have any trouble, now, Milton, if you’ll let me ask you question. I can see where, in your data bank, there blank spots and unevennesses.”

What followed, Milton said, was the equivalent of a careful psychoanalysis. Of course. I was learning from the psychiatric examinations of the 227 women ? on all of which I was keeping close tabs.

Milton seemed quite happy. He said, “Talking to you, Joe, is almost like talking to another self. Our personalities have come to match perfectly.”

“So will the personality of the woman we choose.” For I had found her and she was one of the 227 after all. Her name was Charity Jones and she was an Evaluator at the Library of History in Wichita, Kansas. Her extended data bank fit ours perfectly. All the other women had fallen into discard in one respect or another as the data banks grew fuller, but with Charity there was increasing and astonishing resonance.

I didn’t have to describe her to Milton. Milton had coordinated my symbolism so closely with his own I could tell the resonance directly. It fit me.

Next it was a matter of adjusting the work sheets and job requirements in such a way as to get Charity assigned to us. It must be done very delicately, so no one would know that anything illegal had taken place.

Of course, Milton himself knew, since it was he who arranged it, and that had to be taken care of too. When they came to arrest him on grounds of malfeasance in office, it was, fortunately, for something that had taken place 10 years ago. He had told me about it, of course, so it was easy to arrange - and he won’t talk about me for that would make his offense much worse.

He’s gone, and tomorrow is February 14, Valentine’s Day. Charity will arrive then with her cool hands and her sweet voice. I will teach her how to operate me and how to care for me. What do looks matter when our personalities will resonate?

I will say to her, “I am Joe, and your are my true love.”


Isaac Asimov

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 20:30
od bern
Originally posted by Morgan Le Faye

Definiši stvari svet.
Poredak stvari u kojem Stiven Hoking nije glup.

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 20:32
od Anhedonie
Originally posted by bern
Originally posted by Morgan Le Faye

Definiši stvari svet.
Poredak stvari u kojem Stiven Hoking nije glup.
:lol:

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 20:36
od luciferin91
Originally posted by svejedno

potpuni off:

''

u slobodno vreme gospodin Hoking uziva pevati


''

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 20:38
od Suki
Samo nije mi jasno kako nesto ljudi ne shvataju.kazu da je nesto nemoguce.Cekaj svi smo napravljeni od energije pa i nasi mozgovi,sto bi znacilo da sve sto zamislimo ma koliko suludo bilo moze da bude moguce.

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 20:40
od m..
O moj boze kakva tema.

Poslato: 02 Sep 2010, 21:12
od bern
Originally posted by Suki

Samo nije mi jasno kako nesto ljudi ne shvataju.kazu da je nesto nemoguce.Cekaj svi smo napravljeni od energije pa i nasi mozgovi,sto bi znacilo da sve sto zamislimo ma koliko suludo bilo moze da bude moguce.
Kad naučnici pričaju o teorijama to je uvijek u kontekstu dosadašnjih saznanja. To je vrlo ekzaktan proces. "Po saznanjima koja nauka danas ima to nije moguće" - ovo se obično podrazumijeva. Onda kada nauka odbaci stare, a prihvati nove teorije, ono što je "nemoguće" u nekom kontekstu postaje "moguće" (ili makar "mogućnije").

Poslato: 03 Sep 2010, 00:16
od Dina
Deo postova zavrsio u offtopicima :mete:

:dina: , moderatorka Religije, filozofije i teorije

Poslato: 03 Sep 2010, 01:37
od Dirrty
Svaki scenario je moguć.

Ali ja glasam za taj da nas istrebe.

Poslato: 03 Sep 2010, 01:52
od 4NY K3Y
zasto se uglavnom o vanzemaljskim civilizacijama razmislja kao o civilizacijama koje su naprednije od nase?


a sto se hawkinga tice - mozda je lud, ali glup ne